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Kaizer [Останнi 20 месаг]
№ 1666802 вiд 2023-06-30 20:23:29
Хтoсь тут дaвнo дaв лiнк нa iнтeрвью General Clark в Atlantic Council. Пeрший рaз тoдi пoслухaв i пoгoдився мaйжe зi всiм.
Нa дoпис “Суддячи з дій Польщі, поляки далеко не впевнені в нашій перемозі.” oсь шo булo скaзaнo в 2015-му.
... in 1994 I came back to the Pentagon and in 94 I was with J5 on a joint staff and in that position I was responsible for the joint staff relationships with NATO. So we did the NATO relationship for peace we did the NATO enlargemnet planning and we did the negotiation of the fighting in the Balkans and subsequently I became the NATO commander with allies forces not to mention I had russians under my command. And I learned excrutiating details how different nations have different perspectives of security and their needs. During all that process was what we saw was in the 1990th we saw the era we believed the cold war was over and those ideas that animated the cold war were gone. It was an era when anything seemed possible. I participated as lead officer of the US - Russia staff talks in the summer of 1994 in moscow. we had detailed discussions of how things were. Now I did see that russians still maintain that certainty of territorial overwatch of Europe as one of the russians generals said to me in self talks he said “when will your NATO ships will be in our home town port of Riga? " And of cource that was not their port. And I remeber answering saying you know it's a different country. It's not your port. But I said the more you ask that question the sooner the NATO ships will be there. and of cource because of those kind of questions raised insicurities in Eastern Europe. The Pentagon's position in mid 1994 was at the time of these talks we were opposed to NATO enlargemnt. But prsident Clinton made the decision NATO enlargement will be a good idea so we worke through the process of bringing Hungarry, the Chech republic and Poland in. When I became NATO commandor they were in the process of joining. And I remember the first trip I made to Bulgaria the Bulgarian Foreign Minister said “NATO enlargemnt can not stop here” she said. She said Bulgaria today is weak. Russia is also weak. But Russia some day will be strong agian and before that time Bulgaria must be a member of NATO”. Couple of months later I was making my first visit to Romania. And i had dinner with the Minister of deffence Babiuc. And the subject of NATO enlargement came up. He said they wanted to be a member of NATO. And I said “why?”. Does it have to do anything with russia? Becuase what we were saying at the time in Washington was that NATO enlargement will bring stability in Easter Europe and it wasn't directed against russia. It was designed to promote of peacefull harmony. Mr Babiuc said “of cource it has to do with russia.” I said has there been some incidents, can you explain some of them so that I can bring that to my collegues in Washington so that they can understand the Romanian perspactive. Share with me some of the incidents. He said “certainly, in 1878...” and he became to recount the Romanian history. There's this fear of what comes from russia in Eastern Europe. And I saw it very clearly. I remember going to moscow in summer of 1998 and the russian chieaf of deffence he said to me "you ar eAmericans are taking our countries in Eastern Europe. You want to sell them arms, they are your customers. I said they can buy weapons from whomever they want. And he said “you are taking our minerals to make us poor”. So there was some sort of mercantiles in that view. I tried to work through this with my personal relashionships but you can't teach someone the course of 3-4 semester of micro and macro economics sitting accross the conference table. It's just didn't convey. so we never got passed that. and in Jan 2000 I was back in Romania. The Romanian Chief of Deffence was a new officer in this position and he explained to me that russia was trying to block Romanias expansion to NATO. And he explaind to me why. So, he pulled out a map and it outlined the countries in Europe that showed these arrows arking from one country to another. Like geostratigic lines of force he explained. And you can see them coming out eminating from russia and landing in Bulgaria, Romania jumping fron this country to another. It was like a skatch of a checker board. and he explaine this is how you understand russia. I said how did you learn this he said he went to Frunze accedemi and that's how they were taught. I said please, please do not show this to the Europeans becouase they don't think this way. They won't understand it and you'll build a lot of resentment. Well he didn't take my advice he went to Brussels he pulled out the map and explained everybody how russia was trying to do this. Of cource they didn't understand and subsequantly he was replaced as the Romanian Chief of Defence. I don't know if his mission to Brussels has anything to do with that or not but what we'ra seing today is a manifestation of that geostrategic mindset: if it's not theirs, they wanted it, and if it's ours... that's hurting them. And they viewd the world that way. We don't. We viewd the world as opportunities, invetment, personal growth, relationship building. But they don't see it that way. In 1999 putin came to enouguration ceremony of president Kuchma in Nov 1999 and Yeltsin was ill and he spoke in Kuchma's enouguration and he said words that Ukraine and russia are more than brothers. we are in each others souls. Sure short after that I was contacted by hight representatives from Poland who explained to me that this is code language for putin attempting and planning to take over Ukraine. and they gave me several indicators. This conflict in Ukraine goes back a long long way. this is not that something emmerged after Yanukovych fled Kiev 14 months ago. this is one process that's unfolding and it has one single focus is to bring Ukraine back to the russian orbit. Eather directly or indirectly.
Dr. Orban and I had several trips to Ukraine at the end of March last year. And at that point Crimea had been given to the russians. We sat with the ministry of defense he said I did what I was supposed to do I called the russian generals and said please don't heart our people we can pull them out you can have it. And that's how it began. Then I spoke to the national security advisor and he said “we've captured 12 russian's spetcnaz” I said in Crimea? he said “no, in the rest of Ukraine. But I think the worst is behind us”. I said what did you do with the russians spetcnaz team? He said “we didn't want to be provocative, so we let them go.” that was a year agoo. Since then it's unfolding nightmare fashion...